Alesha Dixon:

I’m Alesha Dixon, and you’re listening to Wear It’s At, a podcast all about midi-life milestones, brought to you by online styling service, Stitch Fix.

Alesha Dixon:

Now, throughout the series, we plan to discuss, dissect and dress everything from love to lust, careers to crisis, and from friendships to fashion. Today, we’re talking about the ups and downs of adulting, and how it’s possible to grow up without growing boring.

Alesha Dixon:

Joining me we’ve philanthropist, campaigner, television presenter, and bestselling international author, the phenomenal Katie Piper.

Katie Piper:

Hello.

Alesha Dixon:

Thanks for joining me.

Katie Piper:

What an intro.

Alesha Dixon:

What an intro.

Katie Piper:

Wow.

Alesha Dixon:

Right? Needed some music behind it.

Alesha Dixon:

Also with us today is West End star and member of Brit Award-winning pop band Steps. It’s Faye Tozer.

Faye Tozer:

Thank you, and hello.

Alesha Dixon:

Thank you, ladies, for joining me.

Alesha Dixon:

Right. So, let’s get straight into the questions. Okay. What makes you feel young, and what makes you feel old?

Katie Piper:

I watched Love Island yesterday, and I felt old.

Alesha Dixon:

My friend texted me. She’s like, “Are you going to watch?” I said, “I don’t want to, but I’m going to.” And then, she texted me afterwards. She was like, “What did you think?” I said, “It’s a load of rubbish, but I’ll be watching tomorrow night.”

Katie Piper:

Yeah. That sums it up, basically.

Faye Tozer:

I had a coffee with my best friend yesterday morning. We said exactly the same thing.

Faye Tozer:

I think what makes me feel old is when I hear people’s birth dates, when they were born, and they say, “I was born …” You know, the millennials.

Katie Piper:

People who were born in the ’90s, and you’re like, “Oh my god.”

Alesha Dixon:

I know.

Faye Tozer:

Yeah. That kind of is a big checkpoint for me.

Alesha Dixon:

Or, when you find yourself moaning about things, and you think, “Oh my god. I sound like my nan,” or, “I sound like my mom.” Usually, I have those moments.

Faye Tozer:

Definitely like my mom. Or, when you say, “Oh. Music’s not the same anymore.” All those things that you heard your parents-

Alesha Dixon:

“It’s not like it was in my day.” You know, when you say that, and you think, “What have I just said?”

Faye Tozer:

Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

Katie Piper:

Or, if people talk to you about current music, and you’ve not even heard of the person. And, I’m just like, “Oh. Sorry. I didn’t even know that’s a person or a brand or I don’t know.”

Alesha Dixon:

What does being an adult even mean?

Faye Tozer:

What I call adulting at home, I guess, is when I have to pay my bills or I have to organization something. It’s the thing that used to feel like homework kat school. It’s the chores that you have to do.

Alesha Dixon:

The chores. Yes.

Faye Tozer:

Yeah. The boring bits.

Katie Piper:

Yeah. I think you’re right. I think, definitely, adulting, for me, is becoming less selfish. I know, as a child and a teenager, my childhood revolved around, “When is it Christmas? When is it school holidays? When is it my birthday?” And then, as a teenager, it was about pushing boundaries, “When can I go out? When can I buy cigarettes? When can I come home whenever I want.” And then, as you become an adult, even before I had my kids, it was starting to think about other people and really becoming aware of that.

Alesha Dixon:

Was there a turning point, would you say, a certain age where you suddenly felt more of an adult, so to speak?

Katie Piper:

I think, for me, it was a bit of a backwards and forwards movement, because I did feel like an adult when I moved out of home. I was only 19 when I did that. And then, when I kind of had a trauma in my 20s, I regressed back to a child. So, I sort of had a good go at it, was a bit wild, came back, regressed into child … like, kind of needing help, needing support, and then I went back out sort of late 20s, and had a much more conservative, slow journey to feeling like a woman again.

Alesha Dixon:

What about you, Faye? How old are you, if you don’t mind me asking?

Faye Tozer:

I’m 43, turning 44 in November already.

Alesha Dixon:

Looking fabulous.

Faye Tozer:

But, I don’t feel like that number matches me at all, but I’m very proud to have earned the stripes for it.

Faye Tozer:

For me, I think it was when I first started working. Those sorts of things, where you’re discovering the world on your own and making your own decisions, and having to just look after yourself.

Alesha Dixon:

I know what you mean.

Alesha Dixon:

As a child, do you remember the thing that you were most excited about doing as an adult?

Katie Piper:

Mine was a lot about accountability. I just couldn’t wait to not have to report to anyone. Like, you get the picture. I was a nightmare as a teenager. I was like, “I can’t wait to live in my own flat, go out and come home whenever. I don’t know when I’m coming home. And, do what I want.” And, actually, when you do do it, it’s not all it’s cracked up to be, because, then, you run out of money for food and rent, and you wish you were at home. I was kind of quite wild in that I just wanted to be really free and just do what I wanted, when I wanted.

Alesha Dixon:

What would you say is the worst thing about being an adult?

Faye Tozer:

I enjoy being an adult. I think, as my years progress and I achieve more, or just as I move forward, my life gets better.

Alesha Dixon:

I agree.

Faye Tozer:

I’m really enjoying where I am now. I wouldn’t go back at all.

Alesha Dixon:

No. You couldn’t pay me to be in my 20s again.

Faye Tozer:

Right. Exactly. And, I feel so much stronger, and so much bigger and better, and so much more satisfied and happy with the world.

Alesha Dixon:

Yeah. And, it’s so interesting how so many people put an emphasis on age and worry about getting older, but everybody I know, there only seems to be positive benefits to maturing, and getting older and wiser and more conscious and awake and aware. Life is just more peaceful, I think, within yourself as you get older.

Katie Piper:

100%. I totally agree with what you’ve said because I’m my happiest at my oldest, and society would say that that’s not right for a woman, because a woman is her most glamorous or most prime in her 20s.

Alesha Dixon:

Rubbish.

Katie Piper:

No. It’s-

Alesha Dixon:

No disrespect to the 20-year-olds. But, trust me, wait till you get older. It gets better.

Katie Piper:

Yeah. For me, with age, has come acceptance, and that equals confidence. So, I’m my most confident and most happy. You know, I’m nearly 36, and I love it. I can’t wait to get older.

Alesha Dixon:

Well, I turned 40 last October, which really surprised me. I had a couple of weeks of feeling a bit anxious about it, which surprised me because, my character, I thought I was going to be really positive about it. So, I had a tiny wobble, but it was more the realization of just how quick life goes, and that was what was making me feel anxious, not the idea of turning 40. Because, I have to say, now I’ve turned 40, actually, I’m so excited, and I feel like I’m just getting started.

Faye Tozer:

Absolutely.

Alesha Dixon:

It’s just so lovely to feel.

Katie Piper:

Yeah. And, also, what a positive way to look at aging.

Alesha Dixon:

Yeah.

Katie Piper:

Aging is a privilege. Not everybody gets to age.

Alesha Dixon:

That’s right.

Katie Piper:

And, actually, you look at it as another milestone. And, when you realize life is short, I’m going to live it to the full and, like you said, really relish and enjoy being an adult.

Alesha Dixon:

Exactly.

Alesha Dixon:

So, how do we grow up without growing boring?

Faye Tozer:

I don’t know. I think there’s something in letting yourself have responsibilities, but also letting your hair down. Make sure that you hang out with your friends and do fun stuff. I mean, I feel very privileged that, with my job in the entertainment industry, I meet so many crazy, wild creatives, and I still jump around with the youngsters on the stage. I just feel that that gives me so much energy and so much laughter as well.

Katie Piper:

I mean, you were amazing on Strictly.

Alesha Dixon:

Yes.

Katie Piper:

I would watch you with my jaw … As were you.

Alesha Dixon:

I voted for you, by the way.

Katie Piper:

Yeah.

Faye Tozer:

Did you?

Alesha Dixon:

Yes.

Katie Piper:

You were so good.

Faye Tozer:

Wow. Thank you. That’s so cool. That’s amazing.

Katie Piper:

But, I think it’s a big thing about not conforming to, “Oh. A certain person at this age shouldn’t be doing X, Y, Z, or shouldn’t wear X, Y, Z.” If you don’t conform to what is, really, just a made up standard, then you don’t put a limit on an age, I think.

Alesha Dixon:

I agree.

Alesha Dixon:

I know you’ll both relate to this, but when you look at the world through your children’s eyes, that helps keep you young as well, doesn’t it? It reminds you to have a childlike kind of attitude about life, and how their imagination is free. We just put so many kind of … the pessimistic kind of adult head on, sometimes. And, actually, just remembering what it’s like to be a kid and just be in the moment.

Faye Tozer:

You know, through the eyes of children is such an amazing thing. Because, I remember, when Benjamin was really small, when he recognized that a window was a square, I was like, “Wow. That’s so cool.”

Alesha Dixon:

It’s the small things.

Faye Tozer:

It is. And, it’s just such a beautiful thing. To have that sort of vulnerability, and be so unaware of what’s out there and the limits that we put on ourselves as adults, I think.

Alesha Dixon:

Yeah. It’s like we put sort of stigmas on things, and kids don’t. They’re just free.

Faye Tozer:

Yeah. Some people think you might become boring when you’re a parent because of routines and that kind of stuff. But, actually, I think it stops me being boring, because I kind of pre … I anticipate everything I say, and I don’t want to say, “Oh. It’s a horrible day outside. It’s raining.” “It’s a lovely day.”

Alesha Dixon:

Yes.

Faye Tozer:

“Let’s go to the river. Let’s put welly boots on.” I don’t want to make my child into a pessimistic person, so I almost sort of think, “No. I shouldn’t say that,” or I shouldn’t say something negative about myself, because I’m going to give her that kind of dialog. You know?

Alesha Dixon:

Yeah. Children keep you in check, don’t they?

Faye Tozer:

Yeah. That’s true. Yeah.

Alesha Dixon:

They really do.

Alesha Dixon:

Do you think there’s such a thing as dressing your age? I mean, I think I know the answer to this.

Faye Tozer:

I’m interested to hear what you think, actually.

Alesha Dixon:

I mean, I don’t think that I dress to suit my age. I just dress in what makes me feel comfortable. I don’t know. I think my style’s got better as I’ve got older. I just feel like it’s an expression of how I’m feeling and who I am. I’m just as comfortable in a tracksuit, but if I want to wear a short skirt and get my legs out, then I don’t feel like I shouldn’t because I’m 40. I still feel like, if you’ve got it, then flaunt it. No?

Katie Piper:

Yeah.

Faye Tozer:

Absolutely. I think it’s interesting because, being in a pop band as well, you get to express yourself and have these amazing, crazy costumes. It’s stuff that I probably wouldn’t wear on the street.

Alesha Dixon:

Yeah. Of course.

Faye Tozer:

But, it’s so much fun to be able to wear these crazy things. And then, in my daily life, I kind of wear classic things, things that I feel comfortable in. But, when I go out, I want to get my legs out. Yeah. I’ve still got okay legs.

Alesha Dixon:

I think, when you get older, you just know what’s appropriate, depending on the environment that you’re in, and you kind of adapt to that.

Katie Piper:

Yeah. I think I would look at it as, “What’s suitable for this job?” I would never think, “What’s suitable for my age?” I suppose, after I had my second child, things like my stomach changed. And then, there was a point where I thought, “Oh. Should I not wear a bikini?” And then, I thought, “Actually, this is crazy.” We’re seeing, on social media, so much more diversity in age, body shape, size. And, I thought, “No. There’s so many different looking people out there. I’ll wear … [inaudible 00:10:00].”

Alesha Dixon:

It’s quite dangerous, isn’t it, if we start dressing by our age?

Katie Piper:

Yeah.

Alesha Dixon:

Because, people are at different stages in their lives within themselves. I mean, my mom’s in her 60s, and she dresses quite cool and quite edgy, and I think, “Why not?”

Faye Tozer:

I think we’re quite lucky with what sort of fashion is out there as well, this generation.

Alesha Dixon:

Do you think you’re more fashion-conscious now, then, than when you were younger, or just more relaxed about it?

Faye Tozer:

No. I think I’m a bit more relaxed about the whole thing, and I feel more confident in my choices and what I feel looks good to me.

Alesha Dixon:

Works for you.

Faye Tozer:

Yeah. And, it is. It’s all about confidence. It’s like people who wear hats. If you wear a hat, wear it with confidence, and people will love you in it. If you’re not sure about it, you can tell by body language. Yeah. It’s nice to be able to express yourself. Yeah.

Alesha Dixon:

Yeah. And, also, I think, when you get older, I think you understand that being sexy or being beautiful isn’t by the length of your skirt or how much skin is showing.

Katie Piper:

And, you stop dressing for other people. You just dress for you. And then, that’s so clear-cut.

Alesha Dixon:

Freedom, people. Freedom.

Alesha Dixon:

What would you say is the most grown-up decision … This is a big question. What’s the most grown-up decision you’ve ever made?

Faye Tozer:

Again, it’s back to children, again. Having the decision to have a baby. I mean, it was kind of more an internal decision, because I think the hormones kicked in, and it was like that’s my drive for life, was … It suddenly felt like that’s what I needed to do. And, I guess, buying a house, that’s a big decision.

Katie Piper:

Yeah. I mean, I think your whole adult years are full of huge financial decisions, strategic decisions. But, I think, like you said, children. I had my second child 17 months ago, and my first child, just like any mom, is so precious to me. And, I really worried, could I feel like this about another child?

Alesha Dixon:

Oh, wow.

Katie Piper:

Will I hurt her feelings if I have another baby? It was this really … I probably overthought it a little bit, because it’s fine, and they’re best friends, and it’s brilliant, but it felt like a big decision because I was affecting so many people’s lives. And, you know, I’m a working mom. I knew I was going to go back to work straight away. But, yeah. It felt like a big decision.

Faye Tozer:

I think that’s a really, really big point, actually, going back to work after having your child. That was a huge decision. Are you abandoning your child? Who is looking after your child when you’re working?

Alesha Dixon:

Yeah. Absolutely. And, it’s not … Other people judging your choices for your life is just crazy.

Katie Piper:

Yeah. Best piece of advice someone said to me was, “Never make decisions based on other people’s opinions.”

Alesha Dixon:

I agree. It’s so right. That’s quite restrictive, if you were to live your life based on somebody else’s opinion of what you should do.

Katie Piper:

Absolutely.

Alesha Dixon:

You wouldn’t do anything.

Katie Piper:

And, it’s a fake life for you, isn’t it?

Alesha Dixon:

Absolutely.

Katie Piper:

Because, you’re kind of living fraudulently, because it’s not, ultimately, what’s at your core.

Alesha Dixon:

Do you still look to other adults for advice?

Faye Tozer:

Absolutely. Every day. I think that I’m really lucky because both my parents are still here. They’re married still.

Alesha Dixon:

Lovely.

Faye Tozer:

We’ve got a really lovely support network. My mother-in-law is incredible. Everybody-

Alesha Dixon:

A sentence you don’t hear often.

Faye Tozer:

I know, right? I feel very, very lucky.

Alesha Dixon:

No. I’m in the same camp. I’ve got a … She’s not my mother-in-law, but she’s fantastic. So, yeah, I feel very lucky too.

Faye Tozer:

I feel so blessed to have people that I can literally just pick up the phone and go, “What do I do now?”

Alesha Dixon:

Yeah. And, there’s nothing wrong in that, I don’t think, at all.

Katie Piper:

No. I think everyone needs someone in their corner. And, for me, I’ve got a range of people that are from different backgrounds, different eras. Because, obviously, sometimes, maybe your parents’ advice might be based on the past and their traditions. So, I think it’s great to have friends who understand your work, and maybe some friends that are giving you an honest outsider’s perspective as well, and they’re not yes-people. I think that’s important.

Alesha Dixon:

Very healthy. I mean, I’m 40, and I still need my mom.

Faye Tozer:

Oh. Absolutely.

Alesha Dixon:

Yeah.

Faye Tozer:

Yeah. Love my mom.

Alesha Dixon:

I don’t think she feels like she has a 40-year-old, because I don’t act like it half the time.

Faye Tozer:

Yeah. They’ll always be your babies. That’s the thing, isn’t it?

Alesha Dixon:

That’s right.

Faye Tozer:

Yeah.

Alesha Dixon:

That’s right.

Alesha Dixon:

What’s the most immature thing you still do?

Faye Tozer:

Like, daily? I mean …

Alesha Dixon:

Is it important to harness your inner child?

Faye Tozer:

Yeah. I laugh a lot. I’m silly a lot. I enjoy that. And, I think holding your children close and laughing, just being silly. Yeah. Being silly is such a joy.

Alesha Dixon:

You’re so right. Life is tough, and it is very serious a lot of the time, so we have to find things that just make us smile, make us happy.

Katie Piper:

Yeah. I think, for me, I feel, sometimes, in my life, I’m responsible for a lot of people. So, sometimes, I like to totally regress. I’ll go with my kids and my husband back to my mom’s, because she doesn’t live in London, and we’ll stay there for the weekend, and my mom will be like, “Do you want me to wash your socks for you that you wore today?” I’ll be like, “Yes.” She’s like, “Do you want a sandwich?” “Yeah.” “Do you want the crusts cut off?” “Okay.”

Alesha Dixon:

I love that.

Katie Piper:

Yeah. And, I just have a really responsibility-free weekend.

Alesha Dixon:

I love that.

Katie Piper:

You know, no makeup, just chilled. And, actually, I know it’s not real life, but it’s escapism and privacy, and it’s nice.

Alesha Dixon:

It’s really nice.

Katie Piper:

Yeah.

Alesha Dixon:

I think, for me, when I’m most immature is when I’m with my daughter and my partner. My partner’s so much better than me at being silly with her and doing silly things, and I find myself, sometimes, being a bit too serious. So, they kind of help force it out of me. They’re like, “Come on, mommy. You’ve got to join in.” And, sometimes, I don’t want to. But then, I’m kind of aware that I’m being a boring adult and I need to just get over myself.

Katie Piper:

[inaudible 00:15:25] exactly the same.

Alesha Dixon:

And, it forces me to do stupid things, and you know what it’s like. I mean, the most ridiculous things. And then, it’s AZ that’s always saying, “Come on, mommy. Come and join in,” and I’m like, “Okay.” And then, I do it, and I’m so glad I do, because it just … Yeah. Being silly. You can’t be silly enough, I don’t think.

Alesha Dixon:

All right. Well, that feels like a good time to take a little break. So, we’ll be back in a moment to talk about what makes you feel old, life milestones, and how to grow old gracefully.

Alesha Dixon:

We all know part of growing up is handling the crazy number of invites you receive when someone hits yet another milestone. Weddings, baby showers, christenings, birthdays. The list is endless, but your wardrobe isn’t. So, why not let Stitch Fix give you a hand by picking the perfect outfit for your next big occasion? All you need to do is head to stitchfix.co.uk, fill out your style profile, tell your personal stylist what you’re looking for, and they’ll handle the rest. Before you know it, you’ll be handing out style tips at every event.

Alesha Dixon:

Welcome back to Wear It’s At, with me, Alesha Dixon. I’ve got Katie Piper and Faye Tozer with me, and we’re talking all about being a grown up.

Alesha Dixon:

Something I’d like to ask you both is about the path your lives have taken. Are you the kind of people who feel like there are certain milestones you need to hit in order to be fulfilled? I’ll start with you, Katie.

Katie Piper:

I suppose my younger self did. And, I’m mid 30s. I think, when I grew up, there was less opportunity and less platforms. So, you’d go to a careers meeting, and they would say, “Do you want to be a hairdresser? Do you want to be a plumber?”

Alesha Dixon:

Quite limiting.

Katie Piper:

Yeah. And, I don’t think you knew what was out there. Whereas, now, people are more connected than ever. People are encouraged to be ambitious, to be entrepreneurs, to be self-employed. So, I think that’s kind of broadened. Where, actually, when I was young, I thought, “Oh my gosh.” You know, I came from a village. People got married in their 20s. Whereas, I didn’t get married until my 30s, which I, living in London, still consider as quite young. So, yeah, I don’t panic or worry about anything like that now, because some people don’t become successful until their late 50s, and some of those people are the most idolized people in the world. So, it’s certainly changed, to me, as I’ve got older.

Faye Tozer:

I think, when I was at school, I always knew that I was going to be in the industry in some way or form.

Alesha Dixon:

How old were you when you joined a band?

Faye Tozer:

Before Steps was formed, I’d actually already sort of been round the world a little bit.

Faye Tozer:

Goals are interesting, because I think I always pencil lists and think, “Oh. What can I do next?” And then, something else will pop up. So, no, I never know.

Alesha Dixon:

So, you don’t make a plan?

Faye Tozer:

I have a list, but it never kind of happens.

Alesha Dixon:

Do you make plans?

Katie Piper:

I kind of believe in that saying of, “If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans,” because I just kind of think-

Alesha Dixon:

Yeah. It’s a good saying.

Katie Piper:

-it’s all mapped out, and you’ve just got to keep faith, keep optimistic, and actually turn up and be the best version of you at everything, and that’s it. That’s all you need to do. But, I love working, and I love working hard. And, like you said, rejection is part of life. That kind of goes back to adulting. It’s not necessarily negative. It just means something wasn’t meant for you, and you’ve got to learn how to be part of rejection as much as you can celebrate success.

Alesha Dixon:

I think that’s great.

Alesha Dixon:

Do you feel like your style has reflected different milestones in your life?

Faye Tozer:

I mean, look back on all of those photos, right? It’s horrendous. I relish in it. And, it’s a joyous thing to look back at all the styles that I’ve, particularly, worn, and hairstyles. It’s a joy, and it’s slightly painful too.

Katie Piper:

You had dreadlocks, didn’t you?

Faye Tozer:

I certainly did.

Katie Piper:

Yeah.

Alesha Dixon:

Oh, yeah.

Faye Tozer:

I did. I did. But, I think I’ve really come into my own, and I feel really comfortable, and I love my wardrobe now. I mean, I’ve got pieces of clothing in my wardrobe that are like 20 years old.

Alesha Dixon:

Really?

Faye Tozer:

I mean, that’s crazy, isn’t it?

Alesha Dixon:

And, you’ll still wear them?

Faye Tozer:

Yeah.

Alesha Dixon:

That’s great.

Faye Tozer:

Just nice classic pieces. And, I’ll go, “Oh. That’s that black dress I can pick out again.”

Alesha Dixon:

Because, I was chatting to Jodie Kidd, and she was saying that she’s got pieces that she’s had in her wardrobe for 15, 20 years, but they stay in a box. They never come out, ever.

Faye Tozer:

We’ve got those too. We do have those too. But, I’ve got some really great pieces, and I’m like, “When did I actually buy that? Oh my god. It was like 20 years ago.”

Alesha Dixon:

Wow. That’s amazing.

Alesha Dixon:

What about you, Katie?

Katie Piper:

It’s funny, because I always think I look great, like you, and then, I look back and think, “Oh my gosh. I remember thinking that was a really good decision.”

Alesha Dixon:

At the time, it always is, though.

Katie Piper:

And, it’s just horrific. But then, I think, actually, we shouldn’t say, “Certain people shouldn’t wear this,” because it’s a freedom of expression. For me, if I dress a certain way, it kind of communicates how I want to be treated, how I want to be viewed. And, it might not necessarily be the best look on me, but, for me, it might have empowered me, it might have communicated something that I couldn’t communicate myself in other ways. So, yeah, it’s more than just vanity or fashion. Clothes are a huge part of identity, I think. But, I think never feel ashamed of your past outfits because it’s who you were at that time.

Alesha Dixon:

That’s right. But, I’m definitely with you. Because, being in a band, it’s like you think you’ve got a separate rule book to everybody else.

Faye Tozer:

Absolutely. But, I think, because you’re being seen, you want to give people something to look at.

Alesha Dixon:

Of course.

Faye Tozer:

I mean, that was my theory, anyway.

Alesha Dixon:

It’s lovely looking back at photos and laughing about it, and kind of thinking, “Oh my god. What was a thinking?” But, like you said, Katie, at the time, it felt right, so you go with it, don’t you?

Katie Piper:

Yeah.

Alesha Dixon:

When you see people out, like younger people, do you feel sad that you’re not like them, or are you relived?

Faye Tozer:

I’m relieved, personally.

Alesha Dixon:

Yeah. Me too.

Faye Tozer:

I kind of look at people, and I really enjoy watching, people watching. Because, I still go out to bars and clubs, and I love to socialize, I love music, I love dancing. I’ve got a really great gang of Northern girls that I hang out with. And, that makes me feel really alive. It does. But, you get in the bar, and you think, “I am the oldest one here. Am I allowed on the dance floor?”

Katie Piper:

But, you don’t look it.

Faye Tozer:

Bless you. It’s that moment that goes, “Am I allowed on the dance floor? These girls are all so gorgeous and young and free.” And then, your decision takes over, and it’s like, “Yeah.” We get right in the middle and have a lovely time. But, yeah, going out to bars and clubs, I kind of age check myself.

Alesha Dixon:

Really?

Faye Tozer:

Yeah.

Alesha Dixon:

Do you guys plan on growing old gracefully or disgracefully?

Katie Piper:

I don’t even know what that really means anymore.

Alesha Dixon:

I know.

Katie Piper:

Because, again, it goes back to society’s standards and opinions. I just want to evolve and be me and not conform to anything.

Alesha Dixon:

Exactly.

Faye Tozer:

I think I’d like to say that I am graceful as a person, but it’s lovely to be quirky and interesting and curious about life. I don’t think that should ever end. So, if that means disgracefully, I’ll have that.

Alesha Dixon:

Yeah. I’m with you. I want to be disgraceful.

Katie Piper:

Yeah. Yeah. Great quote.

Alesha Dixon:

What did you find the most significant thing about becoming a parent?

Faye Tozer:

That I suddenly … It wasn’t all about me anymore. And, it’s been the most incredible journey. But, it’s letting yourself go and taking on a different role.

Alesha Dixon:

Did it change your relationship with your own parents.

Faye Tozer:

Yes. Oh my god. I’ve got to say, my relationship with my mother, we got really close, and I kind of went, “I’m really sorry that that’s what I was like as a teenager. I now get all your decisions.” I think I just apologized to my mom a lot.

Alesha Dixon:

Really?

Alesha Dixon:

What about you, Katie?

Katie Piper:

Exactly the same. Yeah. I mean, when I was pregnant, I felt a massive sense of ownership over, “This is part of my body. My baby.” And then, when I gave birth, it was this weird thing of, like, “Wow. I’m trusted with another life, and I’ve never done this before.”

Alesha Dixon:

It’s really overwhelming, that feeling. I felt that.

Katie Piper:

Yeah. And, I think, wrongly, maybe I read too many books, and it’s like, “Oh my gosh. If anything goes wrong, it’s going to be all my fault.” And, obviously, I felt different the second time. And then, a few weeks in, I kind of texted my mom like, “Wow. This overwhelming sense of love. So sorry for what a nightmare I was.”

Alesha Dixon:

You said the same thing?

Katie Piper:

Yeah. Because, I remember always shouting at my mom as a teenager. Like, “None of your business. What’s it got to do with you?” And, now, you realize it’s got everything to do with them, because they made you.

Alesha Dixon:

Oh my god. It’s like a full circle moment, isn’t it?

Katie Piper:

Yeah.

Alesha Dixon:

Did becoming a parent change your wardrobe at all? Did you just think, “Oh. I’m a mom now. I don’t care.”

Katie Piper:

I got a bit boring at first, because … I got a bit a like, “Oh. I have to be in flats. I have to run around. I have to be a bit more practical.” And then, when I got a little bit of my life back, I probably went full glamor and more over the top, purposely to be like, “I don’t want to be defined as just one person,” because being a mom is only a part of me. It’s not everything I am.

Alesha Dixon:

That’s a really good point.

Faye Tozer:

I really enjoyed wearing maternity trousers.

Katie Piper:

[inaudible 00:24:00].

Alesha Dixon:

Especially when you go to a restaurant.

Faye Tozer:

They’re so comfy.

Katie Piper:

Eat the bread.

Faye Tozer:

Yeah. Do you know? I felt so sexy when I was pregnant.

Alesha Dixon:

Isn’t it funny? Yeah.

Faye Tozer:

I felt amazing. I suddenly had boobs for the first time in my life. This bump just felt incredible. Michael, my husband, was just all over me, and it just felt so amazing. And, I wore tight dresses for the first time. I wouldn’t really wear tight dresses before. That was so amazing, to be able to enjoy that. And then, once, obviously, Benjamin arrived, I got proper frumpy, like you say, just because you need that comfort, and you are so tired. But then, there is that moment where you go, “Right. It’s time to have a little bit of me back.”

Katie Piper:

“I’m back.”

Alesha Dixon:

Yes.

Faye Tozer:

Yeah. “Get those heels back on. I’m ready. Let’s do this.”

Alesha Dixon:

I know. It’s such a nice feeling when you kind of get the motivation, because I just didn’t care in the beginning.

Katie Piper:

Yeah. I think that’s cool, though. Don’t you think? A bit of time out. That’s fine. And, when you come back, the comeback is bigger.

Alesha Dixon:

Yeah. Absolutely.

Alesha Dixon:

Do you feel like you have to dress like a mom?

Faye Tozer:

I think I dress kind of practically more. It’s like, I would rather wear trousers on a night out than, maybe, a mini-dress. Not that I don’t enjoy doing that, it’s just that’s how I kind of feel. And, I think, if Benjamin was with me or his school mates were even looking, it’s like I don’t want to be seen as a sassy person getting it all out.

Alesha Dixon:

Right. I get that.

Faye Tozer:

And, I think, also, I don’t know if this is a funny thing to say, but to be a little bit more respectful to my husband as well, not putting it all out there on show.

Katie Piper:

So, my daughter, she’s only five, on non uniform day, she was like, “I need to wear a bra top for non uniform day.”

Alesha Dixon:

She did not say that.

Katie Piper:

Yeah.

Alesha Dixon:

Wow.

Katie Piper:

She doesn’t even own a bra. She owns like a Peppa Pig vest and dresses and stuff. And, I was like, “Why?” And then, she was like, “Because you wear a bra top.”

Alesha Dixon:

No.

Katie Piper:

And, I was like, “Well, it’s different.” She was like, “I want to show my belly.”

Alesha Dixon:

Would you be happy if your children grew up to be like you?

Faye Tozer:

If Benjamin turned out to be determined and hardworking … I mean, I’m very lucky because he is a really thoughtful and respectful young man, and I think he is going to be a go-getter. So, yeah, I hope so. I hope I can pass on some good stuff.

Alesha Dixon:

I think they say you teach your children more by your actions, them seeing you doing well and happy, than the things you tell them. You’re a living example of … You know.

Faye Tozer:

I think happiness is a massive thing, though, isn’t it?

Alesha Dixon:

Yeah.

Faye Tozer:

Because, I think I do believe that you can choose happiness, and I think you can bring happiness into your life.

Alesha Dixon:

That’s a really good point.

Katie Piper:

Yeah. I mean, I think, for me … Outside of work, I use a different name and my daughter has a different name, and I don’t want her to be compared to me, because it’s a completely different journey, and I want her to be her own person. And, also, her dad’s an incredible person, and he’s got amazing qualities that I hope she has. And other people, extended family, friends, different mentors in her life. I hope she gets a bit from everybody. Whatever she turns out to be or do, I know I’ll be proud of her.

Alesha Dixon:

Yeah. I think, a bit like you, my daughter and I have different surnames, but I think people always presume, if you’re in the industry, then your child’s going to follow suit. And, I’m like, “Well, actually, I want her to find who she is and discover what’s right for her. I don’t want her to feel a pressure just because mommy’s doing this.”

Katie Piper:

Yeah. Or, to feel inadequate if they don’t choose that path. It’s such a personal thing. I think, in my own experience, you don’t really know yourself, and you go through different decades of your life of finding out what you do want to do. You might change direction. So, never to feel that pressure to conform to the same path.

Alesha Dixon:

Exactly.

Alesha Dixon:

To finish, what’s one piece of advice you would give your younger self about adulting?

Faye Tozer:

Don’t compare yourself to other people.

Alesha Dixon:

Love that.

Katie Piper:

Yeah. I mean, I suppose mine is in a comparison vein of don’t rush and wish it all away because you’re sort of in this state of anxiety to get to the next goalpost, to get to the next age. One certainty we can have is that it will all come in time, and it’s not a race, and everyone’s pace is completely different. Kind of chill out, take a backseat, because it comes to us eventually.

Alesha Dixon:

Yeah. As easy as it is now, as an adult, to say to somebody young, “Just relax. Everything will be okay,” when you’re in that mindset as a 12, 13, 14-year-old thinking about your life choices, it’s hard, isn’t it, to get them to listen.

Katie Piper:

Yeah. Worry doesn’t give you control over a situation.

Alesha Dixon:

No.

Katie Piper:

It’s an unproductive emotion, really.

Alesha Dixon:

Yeah. And, I think, in a way, that’s how, I think, we become better parents. Because, now, I’m so relaxed with my daughter. The last thing I say to her when she walks into her classroom is, “Have fun.”

Katie Piper:

Oh. That’s nice.

Alesha Dixon:

Because, my theory is, if she’s having fun, that’s all that matters, because she will learn if she’s having fun. Try to just have a relaxed attitude about everything because, like we were saying before, life is so serious, and you’ve got to find useful ways to just get through it in a fun way.

Katie Piper:

I’m going to take that as my best tip, then. There we go. That’s a good piece of advice to receive. Yeah.

Alesha Dixon:

Well, unfortunately, we’ve run out of time. I was enjoying that conversation.

Alesha Dixon:

Thank you so much, Katie, thank you, Faye,-

Faye Tozer:

Thank you.

Alesha Dixon:

-for joining me today on Wear It’s At. It’s been a lot of fun having you here today. And, yeah, hopefully, the listeners will take away some positive nuggets from our little chat, so thank you.

Katie Piper:

Thank you.

Faye Tozer:

Thank you.

Alesha Dixon:

Thanks for listening, everyone. Hit “Subscribe” and join me for our next episode, when things get a little hot under the collar as we discuss love, lust and everything in between with Love Island’s Camilla Thurlow and the brilliant Ashley James.

Alesha Dixon:

Do you remember the first time you felt like a fully fledged adult, or do you think you’re still not quite there yet? However you feel, we’d love to know. Join the conversation by using the hashtag “wearitsat” on Instagram. Whilst you’re there, don’t forget to follow @stitchfixuk for loads of style tips and inspiration so you can adult whilst looking your ultimate best.